OPW CEO INTERVIEW — June 17, 2005 — Online dating upstart, True.com, states on it’s home page that married people will be prosecuted, has driven online dating background checks legislation, and challenged the integrity of it’s competitor’s personality profiling systems. What will it do next? Mark Brooks, Editor of Online Personals Watch, interviews Herb Vest, True.com’s CEO and Founder.
Why the True employee layoffs August last year?
We got a little too big for our britches and were going in too many directions at once. We decided to cut back and focus our direction.
You're a newcomer, an outsider, you could have just been a VC without getting personally involved. What made you be want to be personally involved?
I'm an entrepreneur at heart and like to be involved in running the business. A VC is more akin to banking than entrepreneurship so VC's are not necessarily real good entrepreneurs, and vice versa. I'm more socially oriented. I want to make a difference. What does society need? One thing is money, the other is love. I handled the money with HDVest, and so I then decided to try my hand at love. I know we can lower the divorce rates. They're way too high. I believe True can do something about that.
In your book you mention revolutionary entrepreneurs. What is a revolutionary entrepreneur?
We tend to be social outcasts, not necessarily well liked in the corporate world. We are very good leaders but not very good followers at all. A revolutionary entrepreneur seeks to change society for the better by using their business powers.
And what are the top 'principles of war' you've applied to True.com?
The main principle of war, business, and life in general is the principle of the offensive. I think in general in life and business and in war you have to constantly be on the attack. That is the thing that I have learned in life. If you go on defensive you're going to lose. You always have to be out their stretching and pushing the envelope and digging at the competition. I like the competition to worry about me rather than me them. In my book, Instructions To My Officers: A Revolutionary Approach to Entrepreneurial Strategy, I talk about the race car driver, which is one of the better parables. It covers the principle of focus; focusing on the curves but being aware of other curves ahead. You have to set yourself up for the future curves otherwise you’ll slow down and give the competition time to regroup. This is the approach True is taking right now.
How is True different than PerfectMatch and eHarmony? How is the site better?
eHarmony is going after a particular group which represents around 20% of the market; those looking for a long term relationship. The people at True believe that love is a continuum. When you come off a relationship you may say, ”wow, I never want to do that again,” but it may not be too long before you wind up looking for another relationship. So, if you have people who are looking specifically for long term relationships without regard to where they are in life, they tend to fail. They are going into life with the idea that, “I'm going to find my partner.” I think, going in to a relationship to have a good time and ‘perhaps’ find a partner, makes more sense.
What would you say to Dr Warren and Dr Pepper?
eHarmony and PerfectMatch are actually trying to tout tests that purport to measure compatibility between couples when in fact there's no scientific evidence that they do. I think they are highly misleading. I would like the industry to look at compatibility testing on a more professional level. I’d like to see these tests certified against principles set up by professional psychologists. I think the public is going to wake up and feel duped unless we conform to professional standards. It’s going to completely destroy the industry. It’s a very serious situation. We need to establish generally accepted principles. We need to look at the methodology, conclusions, findings and algorithms used in these tests. Once independently verified, professionals should publish their testing manual on their site, as we've done. You can find that on True.com. We've also had Dr James Houran publish results in professional journals and invited criticism from other professionals. This is the way science has always been done; the generally accepted principle. I am appalled we're not applying that as an industry. We'd like to do something about that eventually. We’d like to poll all dating sites to adopt a professional method of testing that has been accepted by the scientific community, or, if they don't do that, then they need to label their tests as ‘fun’ tests. They can't imply reliability. It’s very dangerous for the public and we think something needs to be done about that.
How will True influence society over the next 5 years?
We plan to lower divorce rates in this country, and others, with scientifically backed matching. We also need to improve the courtship process. We will work on testing methods, dating tests and things like that. There’s a big difference between dating and long term relationships. For long term relationships it’s important couples agree about raising kids, finances, household chores etc. For short term dating, the relationship factors are not so important as sense of humor, mindset and interests. We want to facilitate both sides of the equation, for the long term and short term mindsets. You will see more and more testing on True; matching base upon users goals, whatever they are within the dating continuum.
What’s next on the agenda?
We have ambitions far beyond just online dating. As a relationship company, in the next couple of months we will introduce pre-marriage counseling, pre-commitment counseling and self help guides combined with a referral service to specialist counselors.
Can you give me an example of why this is needed?
My wife and I occasionally argue, as do all married couples. We stumbled on a technique where we become each other’s attorney. We’ll put each other on the stand and pretend to be each other, taking the others view. True will introduce conflict resolution techniques over time. Every year suicides occur because of failed relationships. People need to think through issues before they become hot issues. Many problems can be averted. I have had a lot of experience with conflict resolution over the years. There’s usually something that can be done.
Any plans to move True into Europe?
Definitely, but much more long term. We’re focusing on the US market. We have every reason to believe that couples problems in the US are the same as international problems, but, we want to research this more. We will be moving internationally. One step at a time.
What does the future hold for True?
In a short time, just one and a half years, we’ve already taken a substantial leading position in the industry. We will hold and gain. You’re gonna see a whole lot more of us, raising a lot of ruckus. We made progress with safer online dating. The industry needs to get more serious about full disclosure and doing a great job for the consumer.
Actually many online dating sites invented a proprietary test to measure different items and a way to compare and assign a compatibility percentage between profiles.
-eHarmony uses a proprietary test, invented by Dr. Neil Clark Warren (psychologist), only English for USA.
-Match and YahooPersonals! use WeAttract’s proprietary test, invented by Dr. Mark Thompson and Dr. Glenn Hutchinson (psychologists) Adapted MBTI model, only English for USA.
-Tickle uses a proprietary test only English for USA, invented by Plumeus Inc (Canada).
-PerfectMatch uses a proprietary test, invented by Dr. Pepper Schwartz (sociologist) Adapted MBTI model, named DUET method, only English for USA.
-Cybersuitors uses a proprietary test, invented by Dr. Glenn Wilson, only English for UK.
-True uses a proprietary test, invented by Dr. Jim Houran (psychologist) Adapted Rasch model, only English for USA.
True.com has its proprietary test independently certified to meet the Standards for Educational and Psychological Testing (its proprietary compatibility test uses an adapted Rasch model as it could be seen in TCT Manual)
http://www.true.com/images/tctmanual.pdf?svw=footer
As I could understand True.com HAS NOT any certificate about MARITAL STATUS SATISFACTION and STABILITY PREDICTORS in its proprietary compatibility test.
There are a lot of tests that meet Standards for Educational and Psychological Testing:
Some Examples
Personality:
IPAT’s 16PF5 in different languages from http://www.16pfworld.com
CPpro from http://www.computerpsychologist.com/tcp2000/prodserv.htm
IPIP 16PF5 from http://ipip.ori.org/ipip/ Dr. Lewis Goldberg, Oregon Research Institute
15FQ+ from http://www.PsyAsia.com
FiT In from http://www.hrobjective.com
Intelligence.
Raven Matrices
WAIS
Other tests:
Zulliger Test
Rorschach Test
House Tree Person from Buck-Hammer
Person under the rain test, used to measure how aggressive a person could be in some situations.
Bender-Gestalt test (used to test Driver’s License applicants in Argentina)
But these last five could not be computer automated, although there are Typical Answers
Mostly they are used to match job applicants to a job (the 3 or 4 persons who best fit a position).
They also could be used to match persons, online dating. The main problem is how to solve the matching algorithm.
Many Single_But_Not_Alone persons are not interested in marriage satisfaction and stability predictors, only in contacting predictable persons, quality contacts, reliable people.
Kindest Regards,
Fernando Ardenghi
Argentina.
ardenghifer@gmail.com
Thanks for the comments, Fernando!
I had a few corrections and comments. First, the TRUE Compatibility Test (TCT) was created as an online compatibility test by Ilona Jerabek and her team at Plumeus, Inc. along with the psychology team at TRUE.com.
Second, the Compatibility Index (TCI) between two people who have completed the TCT is a significant predictor of relationship satisfaction. The TCT has excellent technical quality (based on Rasch scaling/ Item Response Theory), and, again, is a significant predictor of relationship quality. The TCT is valid for heterosexual and same-sex matching — and the TCT has no age or gender biases. Moreover, a summary of the rationale and technical quality of the TCT was recently published in the peer-reviewed journal, Dynamical Psychology.
Many of the tests you identified could meet professional testing standards if they can be shown to yield scores which have (i) no item or test bias (only confirmed with Item Response Theory not Classical Test Theory), (ii) conjoint additivity (interval or ratio level scores, not ordinal or nominal), and (iii) validity for predicting relationship satisfaction. Not all proprietary tests do meet standards — even though they might be well-known by the public as well as psychologists.
None of the other compatibility tests touted by other online dating or relationship sites (eHarmony, PerfectMatch, Yahoo, etc.) have been independently audited by a tests and measurement expert to confirm that they do indeed meet these professional standards — much less have their tests been published in peer-reviewed journals. This was the basis of my recent paper published in the North American Journal of Psychology. The one possible exception is the test developed by Dr. Glenn Wilson for Cybersuitors (UK). The evidence for this test’s efficacy has been published in a peer-reviewed journal.
When a company uses “science” to sell a product and instill consumer confidence in the results, then that company should truly use scientific methods and back that claim up publicly. TRUE.com has demonstrated that audits and publications can be accomplished without revealing proprietary information, so there is no reason why consumers cannot be given this important information so they can make an informed decision as to whether they want to utilize a particular test. Companies have the right to use whatever method they want to match people, but companies have an ethical and moral responsibility for disclosing the reliability and validity of a test/method when they advertise scientific methods and scientific matching. This is an issue that will not go away — in fact, I predict it will only become bigger in the months ahead.
As for the percentage of people that use testing in the search for a partner, well….not all do. The majority probably don’t. But, my question is whether those that don’t made that decision because what assurance are they given that the test is worthwhile and professional?! Another study I published in the North American Journal of Psychology found that when a compatibility test predicts that someone is extremely compatible, the test taker concludes that there is only a 50% probability that the match will prove satisfactory when met in person.
Thus, it is clear to me that the industry needs to do a better job of educating people why they should use and trust testing. The problem is…the public is right in being skeptical!!! TRUE has set an industry standard that I hope other so-called “science-based” matchmaking services will soon follow.
Thanks,
James Houran, Ph.D.
Chief Psychologist, TRUE.com
Mr. Vest claims he made progress in making online dating safer. His attempt to get laws changed failed.
Is he plannng to try again? Or, was it for attention as Match.com claimed?
Mr. Vest is being sued by an ex finance in Dallas for nearly 6 million dollars. The claims in the law suit are very disturbing. If they are TRUE everything Mr. Vest claims such as whating to make dating wholesome and safe are a total misrepresentation.
I have also hear Mr. Vest is being investigaged in Texas for monies donated to various candidates campaigns.
I would like to know why this interview reads more like a press release to promote True and it does reflect a TRUE background and investigation for Mr. Vest.
Mr. Vest is so in favor of background checks. Where is his?
I have found this ‘True.com’organization to be unresponsive, argumentative and subject to ignoring requests. I have found this organization to not be honest nor to be professional in their dealings
Caught my fiance’ of 3 year 2 weeks ago with an active profile on True.com (the free one). He saw the light and it scared the hell out of him and he knows I’ll kick him to the curb in a heartbeat if he does it again. He’s lost all privacy rights to his computer…
I have emailed True.com several times regarding this and have received no reply. Since they obviously don’t care that they make it so easy to cheat and choose not to respond when it does happen, I do will not recommend True.com to anyone.
More law suits flying at True. The financial problem is at critical mass.
Vest miss management, life style, and paranoia is about to sink the ship.
True didn’t start this company to make dating safer. Vest the owner is paranoia. He hired an investigator to follow his fiancee and get her private information. Because this guy is off his rocker he accused her of being in the Mafia, having sex with everyone but her dog, and a list of outrageous accusations. All the while Vest was cheating on her!
I know first hand about Matchmakers. Well, one named Sara Norton, Dallas Texas. I meet her in 1991 at a fundraiser for Parkland Hospital. She approached me gave me her card and asked me to meet with her so she could tell me about her service.
I called a couple of weeks later and met with her at an office on Lemon Ave. Sara told me she matches people and that she only charged the men ($3,000) a year. Sara went on to say that the men she worked with were busy professional, usually divorce and getting back into dating. Sara also told me she checked these guys out.
Sara introduced me to some very nice people and a couple I did date for 6 to 8 months. Sara also would have an open party that she charged $50 for men and some women $30. I have never been much of a party girl. Sara would call and ask me to come because the party was usually short on women – no charge. Sara also would have a private party for her members at one of the members home. Come to think of it she usually charged for that party too. Sara would call and ask me to come to those as well. This occasion was special it was her birthday.
I mainly went to her events because she didn’t charge me and was introducing me to people. Most were a complete mismatch and I began to believe she wasn’t matching by interests, morals, character. It was more I have a guy that needs a date. Who owes me a favor? I arrive late. My usually MO was to stay for one hour and a half say thank you get my car go home get comfortable and watch TV with my dog.
The night of her birthday party. fall of 1995 I wasn’t up for going out, but there was two reasons to go. The first it is Sara’s birthday and the second was it was in my neighborhood about 5 miles away. I arrive at a nice colonial style home. You know the white house with 4 pillars. Cars lined the street bumper to bumper. When I pulled into the end of the cul-de-sac there was a valet service. There was a line to get in the house. You had to check in and pay. While I was waiting a man approached me introduced himself as the host and with that I went inside. That night at Sara’s birthday party was pretty much the same. I found Sara. Her father was with her. Sara was having a great time. Usually when I talk to her I could see she wasn’t listening and more interested in the crowd. I went to get a cocktail and hit the buffet. Most of the people there I had seen at other events of Sara’s and there really wasn’t anyone I wanted to meet normally. There usually were one or two people that it was nice to see and catch up with.
My host was Herb Vest.
There is a lot more to the story, I will say this there was no happy ever after. The sum of it was womanizing, abuse, cheating, narcissistic, paranoia, perverted sexual demands, manipulation, deception, lies, character assassination, invasion of privacy, accusations: mafia and a prostitute. Which all lead to a nervous breakdown, drug overdose, suicidal, anxiety and panic attacks, Post traumatic Stress Disorder, medications, doctors, mental hospital and a very nasty law suit which is soon to be public and is on going.
The point is it doesn’t matter how you meet someone, nor does education, success, age, or wealth. A background check will never disclose a persons morals, sprit, character, heart or mental health issues and in fact if you have the money you can hide your past as Mr. Vest has by getting the judge Merrill Hartman, 192nd Dallas District Court to seal the file, by claiming the information would damage his business and personal life.
Mr. Vest claims to what to protect people from emotional and physical hazards through background checks and full discloser. End Divorce, so why doesn’t he practice what he preaches?
Did I mention Mr. Vest is on his third marriage (a girl half his age) Cheated on his second wife with a prosititue. Got the first wife in a family way, they lost the baby and divorced. Spent over $100,000. to fake an engagement for revenge to the fiancee he cheated on. Then moved this young girl in his home all the while he was telling his fiancee he wanted them to work out their issues, but he was going to be dating. And he would buy her a house and give her allowance. She declined his offer. A couple of months later he was engaged to the girl. During their engagement and sometime passed the wedding Mr. Vest contunied to inquire and use various people she knew to manipulate. Eventually this lead to her filing a lawsuit against Mr. Vest.
True.com is an absolute scam. I have reported them to the BBB, FTC, and the Michigan Attorney General. Next step is to see a lawyer and see what is needed for a class action lawsuit.