OPW CEO Interview — May 1, 2005 — I've been intrigued with Tribe.net for a while now; 'Craigslist meets Friendster.' Marc Pincus started it not long after Jonathan Abrams started Friendster (purportedly friends). But Marc is handing the CEO's baton to former Pepsi and Proctor and Gamble exec Jan Gullett. I interviewed Jan to find out a little more about Tribe and where he plans to take it. – Mark Brooks
Is Tribe.net a dating site? – Dating is a fairly specific activity and we're a general social community. Building relationships is at our core, but dating is only one kind of relationship. We’re much broader in scope and certainly not a dating specialist. We have a local focus and we help get people together. Knowing who people are is really critical to knowing if you want to do business with them. We think people are hungering for relationships with people they can trust and ‘community’ relies on people knowing one another.
You mentioned recently you'd be taking a more proactive approach to marketing, but given that Tribe.net is a social network, why the need, it grows itself? – We’re not as big as other social networks but we have good organic growth, so additional marketing will accelerate our growth. We have attractive fundamental metrics that we want to take advantage of. We’ve had a nice compound annual growth rate for the last year now. It just remains to be seen how fast we can step on the accelerator.
What do you think of Craigslist? – Craigslist is a great service to the community. Tribe.net is quite different in approach, and people are better off for having both of us.
Why did you decide to join Tribe? – Tribe.net is a real benefit to the community, it’s fun, and I believe there’s a great opportunity for growth. We had an individual who had cancer and raised $100k from local people through the site. This just wouldn't have happened if he went out and stood on a street corner. Helping people pull together to help one another is of great interest to me.
Is there any similarity between Tribe and Starbucks? – Besides being equally addictive? The reality is we have incredibly intense usage by our members. The involvement, time and relationship with the site is really very strong. People hunger for relationships and friendships and being a part of a larger social group. There’s a hunger to be in groups of people with similar interests. As we live in more crowded areas, with less public space and fewer places to hangout…it seems like most of hangouts have gone by the wayside and are being replaced by commercial real estate. Starbucks and Borders have become the new local hangouts. In a way, we’re the online version of that.
What's the caffeine? – Personal satisfaction from high-touch human relationships.
What do you think of the background checks legislation? – In the early days people communicated anonymously online. Now there’s the concept of wanting to be known as a real person online, no longer wanting to do stuff surreptitiously. I believe in honesty, and being comfortable being a real person in the online world is important. For young people, the online world is their world. It’s not artificial for them, not a separate playground. It’s where they live and they want to be associated with others as real people. That’s why we’re investing a lot of time and effort in building out the ability of our users to represent themselves on the web.
And what of Yub.com’s ‘affiliate program for everyone’ site model? – Amway made a lot of people successful. I would say there's business promise. But there’s the sanctity of social friendships based on merit and fundamental essence of goodwill. We don’t want to pollute Tribe.net with an external economic motivation. We’re an online hangout…for very good and valid reasons. Gratifying reasons. Rather than capitalize all out, we’d rather benefit everyone from the Tribe.net goodwill.
What have you learned from Tribe.net users? – We measured response rates of listings from people with profiles and those without and the difference is phenomenal. We have actual proof of the value and leverage of having real people, known in the Tribe.net community, list items…they get an order of magnitude greater response rate to their listings. This is at the core of who we are: providing a rich environment where local people can connect with each other ‘Thin’ services run the risk of burnout.
How will Tribe.net make money? – We’ve put a lot of thought into this. We’re a media business…sponsored tribes, listings and display advertising. These are just different types of marketing messages which we intend to monetize.
“Is there any similarity between Tribe and Starbucks? – Besides being equally addictive? The reality is we have incredibly intense usage by our members. The involvement, time and relationship with the site is really very strong.”
How is it possible that a guy from Pepsi learned nothing from the “New Coke” fiasco. If you change something that people are addicted to, there is going to be outrage. And there has been outrage at tribe.
People are leaving in droves.
But, maybe Jan is more devious than we think. Maybe he did learn something from Coke’s immense rebound. Perhaps, Tribe Classic(tm) is on it’s way soon.
I certainly hope so for Tribe’s sake.
-Adam
I quick breakdown…
I’m a moderator of over 30 tribes, and joined in Sept 2003 when Tribe was small and the community networked closely. Using the network I’ve: organized events, performers, gathered quotes from a spiritual poet from fans around the globe, got a free used car, stayed in touch with friends while in Italy for 4 months and shared pictures of my travels. It’s been a big part of my life, and the recent descions by Tribe’s directing board has me reconnecting elsewhere and lending my ideas to a network who listen…
After beta testing for 2 weeks, with lots of negative feedback, and staunch denail of member requests, pleas and demands after launch, this company doesn’t seem to want to flourish. It is committing suicide.
Q- “Is there any similarity between Tribe and Starbucks? ”
A- “Besides being equally addictive? The reality is we have incredibly intense usage by our members. The involvement, time and relationship with the site is really very strong. People hunger for relationships and friendships and being a part of a larger social group. There’s a hunger to be in groups of people with similar interests. As we live in more crowded areas, with less public space and fewer places to hangout…it seems like most of hangouts have gone by the wayside and are being replaced by commercial real estate. ”
My curiousity is that while Jan praises our tight knit community and acknowledges our connection with the site due to thorough integration of Tribe into our lives, the corporation doesn’t acknowledge they’ve forced a change that is breeding resentment and destroying the fabric of the community as accounts go unsub, tribes fall silent, and Tribe is hushed into being an email client. The design is a daily reminder of this to many, and others less vocal simply don’t login in avoidance or active protest. Why these choices? I’m still baffled…
“Starbucks and Borders have become the new local hangouts. In a way, we’re the online version of that. ”
Was the demographics on userbase consulted?
While there are many folks in places
where the social options are limited to commercial chain environments,
many of the user base are not a part of that demographic.
And it was that user base who helped to virally market Tribe
via word of mouth and direct invitation to their friends around the globe.
One might consider that for them to be friends
they may have similar communication or stylistic tastes that are shared traits.
From this, we built a virtual city of artists, free thinkers, kinkers, and creative professionals
on one site to commune… and we’re given McDonald’s color scheme.
No wonder the peasants are revolting and the libertines leaving,
the intellectuals rethinking the system elsewhere,
and the conversation limited or non-existant.
It’s not welcoming to be here visually.
Just like you wouldn’t paint your den red and white
and expect folks to relax deeply in the room…
Q- “And what of Yub.com’s ‘affiliate program for everyone’ site model? ”
A- “Amway made a lot of people successful. I would say there’s business promise.”
We’re being compared to Amway???
A MLM???
There’s more to the community than accounted for in most multi- level marketing schemes…
“But there’s the sanctity of social friendships based on merit and fundamental essence of goodwill.”
???
If this has been a motivation of management to maintain,
it’s really hard to discern as a member.
” We don’t want to pollute Tribe.net with an external economic motivation.”
???
Again, this is not the message received.
Comparisons to Starbucks, Borders, and Amway don’t make me think community.
” We’re an online hangout…for very good and valid reasons. Gratifying reasons.”
What are those reasons again?
Oh yeah, because we like it here!
And we invited all our friends here!
Hmmm…
Makes me consider hospitality an intergral part of the business’ success.
Just my .02, please forgive any percieved hostility towards individuals,
it is intended firmly for the choices, actions, and accountability
of the directing board members as a unit.
Here’s something interesting for you. I officially unsubscribed from Tribe.net over a week ago. The account is gone and logging in naturally doesn’t work.
However, my profile is still on tribe, visible for everyone to see. It seems that not only are they artificially inflating their numbers but they are now intentionally preventing the tribe.net membership from seeing all the people who have left. . . . making it “seem” better by showing a profile next to those old posts rather than that nasty “UNSUBSCRIBED” icon.
– CV Rick
Look,
I used to love tribe, now I HATE IT,
and I am NOT a minority, everyone I know
feels the same way, Tribe was unique
because, it used to allow people to connect
with their extended community or tribe,
through showing listings from people 2,3,
or 4 degrees apart, now we either get
to look at our immediate friend’s listings
great, but we already know them,,
or sort through the mess of craigslist
like listings,,, I want to hear from myy
greater community, not the greater
community of the bay area,
my friends of 2 3 or 4 degrees away
thats how we used to network on tribe,
thats how we got things done,
tribe is totally unorganized now,
random people pop up rather than people
just a little removed hellepppp
dont believe what he says,,, he doesnt
know, and hes killing tribe
Member of tribe since ’03. It was truly an epiphany and fundamentally changed the way I looked at online communities. I’m still over there because of my friends, but as my friends slowly migrate to other sites (like Zaadz) I will follow them. You see, tribe isn’t about flashy graphics, more ads, and more profit. Tribe was about the people, and if you piss off the people, they’ll leave. Once they leave — there is no tribe.
If I ran across tribe today and knew nothing about it, I don’t think I’d join. Too hard to figure out with the new interface and too hard to meet new people.
It’s been over a week now, and I’m still appalled. Nothing about this made sense, and after hearing from other old school Tribers that the new looks were repproved Beta testing but still shoved down our throats, and now what CV Rick tells us of Tribe.net not letting profiles be deleted together with account is beyond the whole of me.
It is clear to me that the changes, from last December 20th’s new ToU to this very day, are not focused on making money, as any idiot without any notion of marketing such as myself understands that shooting your own feet is not marketing. It’s like a tree sewing its own trunk in order to grow more.
I’m still experimenting with Zaadz.com and so far I’m loving it, but honestly what’s happened with Tribe.net, along with some other personal experiences, has destroyed some of my faith in community forever. However, it’s been quite enjoyable, even without common-interest groups running yet. Let’s see what’s gonna happen. Maybe the fate of ventures such as Tribe.net or Burning Man is, as someone posted here a couple of days ago, shipwreck and prostitution much as Karl Marx has written, but as John Lennon said, ‘alright, Flower Power didn’t work. So what? We start over again’!!
Stand still, folks. Tribe up and move on. While we have an ideal, we’ll be together and we’ll be forever. We’re paramount!!
You realise people, this is just another of an almost infinite number of internet forums? you can leave any time. you can go to Orkut, you can go to friendster, any of these spaces. There too you can bitch and whine and moan about free services and how crappy they treat you.
Of course if you get something for free why complain?
That is a very simplistic argument.
Truth is, I don’t like the new Tribe anymore. I though I would learn to like it, or live with it. Problem is this, Tribe is dying.
The hard fact is that the activity is nearly at a standstill beyond complaining about Tribe. People are leaving. Forums and groups are dying.
If there isn’t activity, there is no Tribe, no business, nothing. This re-design and business plan is a sinking ship that (and forget about members here) for the sake of your investments and employees MUST BE FIXED in the very near future.
Hey Mark – You may want to partition this thread off somehow. I don’t think it will stop.
the new tribe sux ass
seriously, the cool thing about tribe, sense of community, is slipping away largely due to the ineptitude of the marketing folx and the ugly as f*ck UI.
it sort of feels like if burning man suddenly started sporting corporate logos.
can we please just have a little place on the planet that isn’t designed to sell stuff all the friggin time?
yech
i just posted this reply to a discussion thread at a crafty vixens bay area; the moderator says she will flag all non-crafts listings. to which I said:
argh
this is a general cry re new tribes and NOT at our moderator. i feel your pain! here is my perspective:
i never listed local political stuff as discussion topics but did feel that they were appropriate to put as “listings” in any local tribes so folks could be aware of them–same way I like seeing other folks’ misc listings as long as they popped up in listings rather than as discussion topics.
it is the commingling of discussions, listings and events that is maddening to me. If I am not permitted to post off-topic listings that may be of interest, if I lose the ability to communicate outside of my friends list, I’ll surely just withdraw from tribe altogether.
Hmmm, I can understand what people are saying about tribe. I just joined, love it, but can see the energy behind it.
As i see it, the CEO is not going to read these comments. I would say its an invasion of space with a banal robotic corp. culture, but hey, the original people SOLD it to him I believe, or handed the reigns over, so who is really to ‘blame’ here?
And really, is the texting real communication? Are most people only seeing the world through cyber eyes? What about analog communication – through personal meetings? I see tribe as just helping me meet some people first as an intro, then see them. Thats the REAL communication.
Right, I am 36, but if I was 22 now, I would probably just be the same as all others at the same age – mobile phone, MSN texting, emailing. I hear people used to spend HOURS on tribe. Wow! What about meeting them.
Tribe is only a point along the way, not the end. So if tribe changes, find another medium.
Look, the original tribe people dont feel like you guys. They sold it or made money & its going to do what it does, and they are alright with it. They are complaining on forums like this.
Go out & meet people! Go do things that doesnt involve looking at a mobile phone on a train every day! Fer godsakes this isnt the end of the world. But it can be his end if you move away from tribe. I’ll stick with it, then leave after a while if it doesnt fulfill my needs.
Tribe maybe a ‘real’ community, but the real one is the intimacy and connection of ‘real’ humans.
My worldview
Thanks for screwing up a good thing. This was such a good networking tool. Now I am ashamed to even ask new friends to sign up so they can participate with our tribe.
We will be switching to ZAAD or another similar sight soon.
TRIBE is not cool any longer!
SELL OUT
I’m surprised how many folks are suggesting Zaadz, it is not much better, their TOU is rather holier than thou…
“I recognize that Zaadz is creating an online sanctuary for personal development and I commit to co-creating this sacred space by honoring the Terms of Use.”
they have been booting ppl off Zaadz for little apparent reason (probably profile content issues) and without notice, and even lying about it in public forums, insisting they left voluntarily.
They started a discussion group on tribe.net to promote their new network, but then deleted posts that were critical of it for the above stated reasons. check the link below.
people.tribe.net/frankenspock/blog
Even though the Zaadz management doesn’t seem to have a profit motive, they are too wrapped up in maintaining the purity and sanctity of their lofty ideals to allow freedom of speech, and screw that…
Jan-
I’ve been a die-hard TRIBE user and promoter. the recent changes are CRAP. Take it back to our community- or the community will leave. I’ve had several of my friends join up to my myspace account (over 40 in the last 2 weeks) and I despise myspace- but you know what- It’s actually getting to be BETTER than tribe… SOON you will just be ALONE. Why do you think you can just come in and IMPROVE tribe without really understaning WHAT it is that makes it special?? The peeps- LIKE ME. Please revert tribe now.
I actually know of another site going up in a couple of weeks- with peeps who care- so- I’ll be sending MY PEEPS- and I have a LOT over there.
This all disgusts me.
If you were smart- you’d listen.
astrogirl
A corporate giant screws up again. There is a concept called social responsibility that should apply to inentities such as corporations. The action is carried out by those that run the corporation. The changes made to tribe to make it a profit-generating group where the primary purpose is the increase in profit margin each month will kill the concept of tribe. The period of adjustment that this CEO expects to occur will change the fabric of tribe and turn it into a group of consumers in the eyes of these owners. Eventually a different market will emerge through more advanced technology taking over the original idea of tribe and NEW TRIBE will fall. As Joni Mitchell once said, “They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.” Good luck, NEW TRIBE. I will not be one of your mice you use in a maze.
TRIBE IS A ZOMBIE…
It is dead, but won’t lie down.
The powers that be killed it and did not care or listen when the people spoke up.
some of the users of tribe are trying to start over…
http://free-association.net/
is underconstruction but should be what tribe was when they are done.
Hi, Mark Brooks from Online Personals Watch here. It’s been a long while since I took a peak at Tribe.net. Doesn’t looks so bad, but hey, I can’t remember what it looked like before. I was surprised to see the online colleges included in the sign up process, but hey, Tribe ahs to make money somehow.
What questions would you like to ask Jan if I request another interview with him? Please add comments to http://onlinepersonalswatch.typepad.com/news/2005/05/online_personal.html and I’ll review and ping him to see if he’s up for another interview.
Mark Brooks
Editor
Onlinepersonalswatch.com
Yay, Mark asked for questions he should ask if given the chance to interview Jan again.
I would like to know if he’s had a chance to read the input left here and what he has to say about it. Do our comments garner any priorities? Do they help him understand the degree to which his base is upset? Will he not listen so much to his underlings and use his own intelligence to see what an affect the new TOU and look of Tribe are doing to their core? What does he plan on doing about the TOU? Would he be willing to re examine the new TOU and either go back to the last one or create a way that members can subscribe to a version of Tribe that is not censored?
I think you should ask him how much rope he plans to use to hang himself. Tribe is already swinging. Strange fruit, eh, Jan?
Mr. Brooks:
Perhaps you could ask the same questions as the first interview:
“Mr. Jan Gullett, nearly A YEAR as CEO: How will Tribe.net make (a good amount of) money? (More than other possible business like real state, etc)”
or
“which is the successful working business model for Tribe.net?”
Kindest Regards,
Fernando Ardenghi.
Buenos Aires.
Argentina.
ardenghifer@gmail.com
Tribe is heavily dominated by people from San Francisco. Everybody got their freak on. Burning Man, etc., yawn.
It is infested with trolls, many of whom have the temerity to use their real identities to do their trolling. There is hardly an active tribe with any kind of debate or controversy that is not dominated by childish, illogical trollish argument.
It is a harmful drug and is undermining the youth of our nation.
Tribe was down today; a re-design was promised. Now, toward end of day Thursday 9.21, this note is up:
“A letter to the community from the employees of Tribe.net
It’s a new day for Tribe.net.
Thanks to recent management changes, we, the employees, are taking back the site and are happy to announce some real improvements (based upon the tons of feedback you’ve given us).
Here’s what’s changing with today’s release:
Really, it’s orange. Really.
For starters, we’re going back to the original logo (last seen over 2 years ago), and eradicating the blinding red that went into place with our previous management. It is now safe to open your eyes.
More bubbles. Not!
Secondly, we’ve reduced the formerly huge masthead navigation down to a more appropriate size. Our brand is, and should be, secondary to the community and the content.
We’ve also made it easier to navigate the site. All of your stuff (personal messages, tribes, account settings, etc…) is now a click away from every page on Tribe.
Likewise, it’s easier to browse and post to tribe.net via the masthead.
And yes, the bubbles are gone.
“I want a pony!”
How do you design a single useful home page experience for a diverse community that wants completely different things from tribe.net?
Easy–you don’t. You let your users do it.
Just as with your profiles, you can now add/remove stuff from your homepage. And yes, you can finally customize the layout of your homepage by dragging and dropping items on the page.
Create groups of your friends and tribes, and add your favorite RSS feed(s).
So, what’s next?
Y’know, we don’t exactly know yet. But we are looking forward to being around a long time, and making sure we listen to our users.
If you’re in the San Francisco Bay Area, keep an eye out for our upcoming Tribe REBOOT party announcement, and come have a drink with us.
In the meantime, get started using your new customizable home page, and let us know what you think!
Your Happy Tribe Team”
(end quote from site)
I think this is the most interesting thing to have happened to Tribe in about a year!!
The most interesting thing, at least, until they hire yet another loser CEO and spin off the company to somebody else. Can you say, “Bad news”? I knew you could.
What is this with founders of companies abandoning their companies to the hands of jerk-off CEOs anyway? Set up something, make a quick buck, and leave? That’s NO way to run a business as Marc Pincus is finding out.
Well, since the site is now down, I guess only time will tell if this is a “new and improved” version of Tribe or just a re-hash of the mess that tribe became.
The unfortunate thing about managers in high positions is that, the higher the level of management- the less responsibility they have for mistakes. When Jan originally joined Tribe, he railroaded the existing strucuture, uncaringly ignored the member base (he obviously knew better), and implemented his own utterly biased interface. He will never have to pay for his massive, ego driven failure. I have no doubt his golden parachute is far, far more than my annual salary- and I do pretty good for myself.
In short, Jan, if the door hits you in the ass on the way out- you are moving too slow. Good riddens, you egotistical jackass. I can now rejoin to enjoy the enlightened and intelligent individualists whose social circles and collective creativeness you will never have the ability to understand.
I’m surprised by Mr. Kaye’s comment above (we are realtime friends). ‘Sell high, buy low’ David… y’know?
More irony is that I only stumbled on this blog just now… while I was trying to figure out why Tribe.net seems to be down. I’ll bet $1 it’s conservative hackers trying to undermine last-minute buzz that could somehow affect the election (yes…they ARE that desperate.)
The decline of Tribe was predictable, but it’s hardly a surprise that Pincus would rescue it rather than simply duplicate his earlier efforts from scratch. Tribe began to suck when it started to look more and more like Friendster. Friendster works for the people who use it, but those people don’t need 2 Friendsters any more than people who use Tribe need 2 Friendsters. If they did, they’d all be on Myspace anyway with blonde streaks in their hair, lying about listening to techno.
I can only imagine what Gullet’s people were thinking when they threw fertilizer at the ventilator back in January…
Gullet: ‘How will we compete with Friendster?’
Staff: ‘By increasingly using Friendter’s own formula and hoping A)that people who like Friendster will come to prefer it, in spite of the fact that it’s a half-assed version of Friendster and B) that established Tribe.net users will somehow not notice, even though, if they wanted to be on something more Friendster-like, they would already be on Friendster.’
Gullet: ‘Brilliant! The fact that I hired all you geniuses proves that I’m an even bigger genius!’
ive not visited tribe yet, but have certainly heard of it. I think it sounds like a good website